Clarification of "Science Fantasy"

[M. Arkenberg]

Where is the line (as far as BCS is concerned) between Science Fantasy and Science Fiction? How much "technology" is too much; alternatively, how much "magic" is too little?

[Scott H. Andrews]

That's a great question--thanks for asking.

First, an aside: I personally don't think "magic" is a necessity for adventure fantasy or a fantasy secondary-world. Lots of worlds have it, but I as a reader find just as much awe in fantastical animals or plants or landscapes or sentient beings. Any of those sorts of thing would make a setting seem fantasy to me.

As for technology, I don't want anything that feels modern or contemporary or futuristic. Using historical eras of Earth's past as a guide, I would draw a loose line at the end of the Victorian era or the start of the 20th century. Steam engines, clockwork devices, and early cartridge-based firearms are all present in stories that are forthcoming in BCS this winter. Halloween parties, household electricity, styrofoam cups, anti-aircraft guns, urologists, artificial wormholes, containment fields, blue blazers and brown slacks, movies, television, yuppies, American football, and VW Microbuses are all elements from stories that I've rejected in the last month for feeling more modern than I'm looking for.

I also think part of the feel of the technology in a story comes from the characters' attitudes and vocabulary about it. I sometimes see stories where characters in a low-tech world act or talk like modern people in a high-tech world, making modern assumptions about how societies work when their society doesn't work that way. So for me, it's not just the actual technological elements but also the society that contains them and the characters the story is showing in that society.

Basically I'm looking for a pre-modern feel, regardless of the actual time period. I think that feel could exist in a post-apocalyptic Earth, if so much of our technology was destroyed that the societies left over didn't have advanced tech and didn't have modern attitudes about it. Dune feels mostly pre-tech to me because the Fremen have very little advanced tech and have non-modern attitudes about it. Jack Vance's Dying Earth stories have sorcerers flying from planet to planet, but they're using magic instead of technology, and their attitudes and vocabulary are colored by magic and not by tech.

So that kind of low-tech future setting could give the pre-tech sort of feel I'm looking for. It's just that the pre-tech feel is more commonly found in bygone eras, whether true historical ones or fantasy ones inspired by them.

Thanks for the in-depth answer, Scott! Now I'm looking forward to some steampunk from BCS. :-)

[nithska]

I'm replying to another older post, but this is close to what my question is, so I thought I would reply instead of starting a new thread.

I'm wondering about other world stories (2nd world?) in which a modern character journeys to that world.

I can't think of a good example, other than to imagine if Tschai were reached by fantasy means instead of spaceship.

So, if you received a submission that featured a world perfect for the magazine, written with the right feel, but it featured characters from the modern day, could that be acceptable?

[Scott H. Andrews]

Originally Posted by nithska

I'm wondering about other world stories (2nd world?) in which a modern character journeys to that world. ... So, if you received a submission that featured a world perfect for the magazine, written with the right feel, but it featured characters from the modern day, could that be acceptable?

That's a great question--thanks for asking. There of course is a long tradition of F/SF stories with "outsider" characters like that, going back to C.S. Lewis (not just Narnia, but also Out of the Silent Planet and its sequels) and even Jules Verne in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

But for me, I don't think that type of story would fit what I'm looking for for BCS. I'm interested in stories that immerse the reader completely in another world, not just in terms of setting but also in terms of character--how the character thinks, what their values are, how they make decisions of what to do.

If a character from our modern world journied into a fantasy world, that character would still be a product of all their years and experience in our world. The way they think and make decisions would come from our modern world, not from the new world they've just ended up in. The setting would be different from our world, but I don't think the character would be different enough for me.

Perhaps another option might be to have the outsider character come from a different place or nation elsewhere in the fantasy world? That way they would still offer all the advantages of an outsider character, letting the reader discover their foreign surroundings at the same time they do, but they would be a product of their fantastical homeland rather than our real one.

[nithska]

Thanks for the input, Scott.

<puts me thinking cap on...>

[steffenwolf]

Another question about science fantasy.
What about a story where the setting is a game world and the protagonist is a character within the world? The game world is a middle ages fantasy. Because the characters aren't aware of the technology underlying their world, and because they never actually venture into the "real" world, would this be a possibility?

[Scott H. Andrews]

Originally Posted by steffenwolf

What about a story where the setting is a game world and the protagonist is a character within the world? The game world is a middle ages fantasy. Because the characters aren't aware of the technology underlying their world, and because they never actually venture into the "real" world, would this be a possibility?

I don't know exactly what you mean by "game world." Do the characters know they are in a game? If so, I think they would be aware of whatever world or technology created the game.

If you mean the world is a setting that you originally created for a game but you're now writing stories set in it, that's no problem. From the characters' perspective looking at the world as they live their lives in it, they wouldn't be able to tell any difference.

Any setting where the characters are products of their own seconday world and have no advanced tech is fine.

[steffenwolf]

Originally Posted by Scott H. Andrews

I don't know exactly what you mean by "game world." Do the characters know they are in a game? If so, I think they would be aware of whatever world or technology created the game.

If you mean the world is a setting that you originally created for a game but you're now writing stories set in it, that's no problem. From the characters' perspective looking at the world as they live their lives in it, they wouldn't be able to tell any difference.

Any setting where the characters are products of their own seconday world and have no advanced tech is fine.

The characters are unaware that their world is part of a game. There are some technical terms that are part of the story (such as kernel and code), but the context from the characters' point of view makes them seem more mythical than technical. I could see it as either in or outside your guidelines, I'm not sure.

[Scott H. Andrews]

Originally Posted by steffenwolf

The characters are unaware that their world is part of a game. There are some technical terms that are part of the story (such as kernel and code), but the context from the characters' point of view makes them seem more mythical than technical. I could see it as either in or outside your guidelines, I'm not sure.

My first general rule on this, borrowed from Gordon Van Gelder, is that when a story is close to the line, send it anyway and let the editor make the call. If it's not quite right, I'll let you know. But often many of the coolest submissions are things that are on the edge and/or flirt with the edge in ways that I had never thought about, so I would rather see stories that might be on the edge than never get the chance to.

My thought from your comment here would be that the context from the characters' point-of-view should be thoroughly from their own experience, with no hint of the modern or advanced connotation that those terms also have. The reader of course will bring that to the table in their own head, but for characters written using the close point-of-view narrative that I prefer, the characters should show no hint of it.